Dear KOL: IT'S NOT OUR FAULT!!!!!

[rockchick26]

Feb 12, 2009 15:52:24 GMT handsintheair said:

Feb 12, 2009 4:35:20 GMT rockchick26 said:

This thread has really stirred something in me. I feel like there is a big gaping hole somewhere and someone needs to fill it. By that i mean,there are so many different ways to discover new music,but most people don't have the time,so they are 'forced"
to listen to the radio,and it's a vicious circle. If the public doesnt have time to research good music,they'll listen to the radio,which in turn tells the industry 'this is what we like'. So,we unwillingly bring more of it upon our bleeding ears And being an American,i hear it ALL the time about how everyone hates the radio so much! But we're stuck. So it's a conundrum,and I intend to find a way to fix it

I've been thinking about what I want to do for a living,for years,ever since my job started getting slow,and now that i'm laid off,i have many doors of opportunity ready to open up for me,I just have to find which door I should knock on.

Sorry this is a bit of a personal post,but i wish i could give you all karma for making me think about this. I really want to do something to help the state of the music industry these days,and to bring the best music FOR EACH PERSON,to everyone.

Are you anywhere near the Twin Cities area? If so, you've got one of the best alternative music stations right in your own backyard.

minnesota.publicradio.org/

Yeah actually i'm IN the Twin Cities (technically,just 25 minutes south)...is this The Current? Thats the only station i know that doesnt play mainstream stuff,and they do play KOL but lately it's only been Use Somebody,and 90% of their playlist is horrible. They never play any hard rock or 80's stuff,its mostly alternative light rock. I'm not saying thats bad,but if theyre trying to brag about variety,they should stop LOL

Are you in MN too??

[Bornagirl76]

I've been reading through the thread and I think all the points made are really valid and don't necessarily conflict with each other. I didn't want to post because I'm not American, but I always stick my nose into everything so, y'know...

People keep mentioning the fact that it was Sex On Fire that finally broke KOL in the States, as if that's evidence of the "lesser taste" of Americans. Nobody mentions the fact that it was Sex On Fire that propelled the Kings' popularity through the roof all over the rest of the world too. It was their first No. 1 single. It's the song I hear hair-dressers and bus-drivers sing. It was given loads of airplay, sure, but (over here) so were all the BOTT singles. So why was it such a smash hit? Because it's a fucking awesome song!!! I'm sure Jared and Caleb are being disingenuous when they say it's quirky filler that almost didn't make it on the album (a good press hook) I know that they - like all of us - must have known as soon as it was finished that it was destined to be a worldwide chart-shagger. If they didn't, they don't know music! It's a perfect rock hit, and it's got "sex" in the title. It was the song to break America, simple as that.

As for why the Kings didn't break in the US way back when, I agree that we can't underestimate the importance of the Kings' backstory and their look playing a part in their instant popularity in the UK. It was an instant hook, something that everybody grabbed on to (for good or for bad). Whereas back in 2003 in the US it just wasn't hip or interesting. I remember an American friend saying to me, "J, KOL look like my weird cousins that nobody in the family likes. I went to school back in the Midwest with boys that looked like the Kings - that's why I moved to New York!" . Luckily the Kings had the music to back up the interest their story & look provoked in Europe, but I honestly doubt the music would have been given a chance as easily if there hadn't been a hook to draw music biz people in.

As for American radio, I've listened to it a little bit and I've heard a lot of radio in the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand, and there is just no comparison. The difference is colossal. Radio 1 in the UK is the national radio station and it regularly plays "niche" music as mainstream because in the UK "niche" IS mainstream.

America also doesn't have national radio stations in the same way as the UK or other European countires do. The size of the country plays a huge part in the difference in how the music industry works over there. I mean, there are different timezones, so everyone's experience of radio is different. In the UK someone in Northern Ireland listens to the same show at the same time as someone in London, it's the same from Aberdeen to Exeter. Television is the same, and the Kings were on mainstream weekly shows like Top of the Pops and CD:UK right back around Youth & Young Manhood. Everyone was exposed to them. Also, no other country has an influential weekly music press like the UK does with the NME, and previously Melody Maker etc. The NME's influence is greatly diminished these days but it still exists. All of these things combine into a homogenised experience in the UK that really creates a buzz when the popularity of a band or song takes off. Bands have to work much, much harder for that in the US. Most British bands can't rise to the challenge - they're not willing to do the endless touring and radio station visits that are necessary to break a band in the States. The Kings are, cos they're the hardest-workin' boys around!

I agree that the record company didn't push the band enough in the States, but I also think that it wasn't worth their while back around Y&YM and ASH. They couldn't force music like that into the mainstream in America...it wasn't going to fit. I think they should have got their arse in gear a lot quicker and seen the potential of Because Of The Times, though. The band have always been willing to put the work in, they had the support of people like Pearl Jam, U2 and Bob Dylan, so RCA should have put their money to work. Instead they waited to see BOTT truly push the band into the mainstream elsewhere, and only then did they really get the courage to go for it. I dunno why it took them so fuckin' long, but it sure as hell wasn't for lack of fan support. Those Americans who were lucky enough to catch the Kings have been there for them all along.

edit: oh my god, what a rant, sorry! If anyone read this whole thing I salute them!!

[ticboo]

^ KARMA!
Jay, your post is a shining diamond in a thread made entirely of gems!!!!! (ha ha - yes I do mean that!)

You've articulated really clearly so many great points, including some things I was way too lazy to bother pointing out myself.
thanks for sticking your nose in


One thing - i have heard the back story over and over ad nauseam - but I only heard it , so far as I am aware, once I started lurking here and on O Dusty - maybe 18 months ago? I became a fan purely because I heard YAYM about 5 years ago.
So it really intruigues me - Was the backstory and the look THAT influential in bringing the Kings to attention in the UK?? I know the kings themselves think it was, and a few people have given an American perspective on that.

I'd be interested to hear what UK people think, if it's not too off topic.

[anners]

wowww I like this thread! very good job everybody! haha

i *think* I'm the only Aussie to post yet? perhaps?
I'm speaking from a Perth perspective (can someone from melbourne, brisbane, syd, adeliade back me up?)
but we have about 5 main FM radio stations.
92.9 and Nova (basically the exact same, top 40 popular stuff)
94.5 (both top 40 stuff and oldies)
96 (oldies)
aaannnd TripleJ ('alternative')

Triple J have played the kings since YAYM
and in my snobbish music ways is the only station i will choose to listen to.
the other stuff (92.9 and Nova) is just like 15 songs that are popular at that time repeated throughout the day. Nova was on at work the other day and i heard Use Somebody about 5 times in 7 or so hours?
*not that im complaining, but I am when its that friggin' Taylor Swift song*

anywhoooo. Despite this, lots and lots and lots of people listen to Triple J, which is why plenty of people have loved KOL since 2003.
Also, as Australia only has 21 million people, its not hard to find 1000 people willing to go to a KOL show in a certain city, so KOL have always sold out shows here.
Plus they played Big Day Out here in both 2004 and 2006 which I think is a really effective way for bands to get there music out. One MASSIVE show in all states reaches audiences well

so that is basically why Australia likes KOL. (except for the fact there good).

As for the other 4 radio stations, none of them played KOL until Sex on Fire, but plenty of people had heard of/ read somewhere / seen KOL somewhere before.

and from the first page, chairlover was talking about actively seeking new bands, reading blogs, readings magazines etc.
I both agree and disagree on this point.
I myself just got out of high school and spent most of it procrastinating and finding new music on the internet, plus I buy upwards of 6 different magazines a month and they all have music sections / are about music. So I can see why you think everyone does this!
But yeah not everyone has as much time on there hands as we do

I hope this wasn’t dribble! Thanks for reading

[Bornagirl76]

Aww, thanks Ticboo!

Feb 13, 2009 10:53:24 GMT @ticboo said:

One thing - i have heard the back story over and over ad nauseam - but I only heard it , so far as I am aware, once I started lurking here and on O Dusty - maybe 18 months ago? I became a fan purely because I heard YAYM about 5 years ago. So it really intruigues me - Was the backstory and the look THAT influential in bringing the Kings to attention in the UK?? I know the kings themselves think it was, and a few people have given an American perspective on that.

I'd be interested to hear what UK people think, if it's not too off topic.

I truly believe it was that influential, yes. American music was particularly in vogue that year because of The Strokes and The White Stripes - both bands that had a look & a story - and KOL were like the third corner of the triangle. They were almost too good to be true! I was living in London in '03 and I work in media so we were always discussing music and stuff, the NME would arrive on our desks on a Wednesday, and the Kings were "the hairy holy-rollers". My colleague had just moved over from Sony so she got a copy of Holy Roller Novocaine and we both listened to it purely because we were intrigued by what we'd read and seen of these boys. It was the whole package, it was perfect. If Holy Roller Novocaine had come from four friends from Nashville with beer bellies in boring clothes there is no WAY it would have made such a splash.

EDIT cos I've just read Annie's post:
Yep, Australia is different yet again, solely because of TripleJ and Big Day Out. When I was in Australia I couldn't believe how good TripleJ was! That's all we listened to, and I couldn't get over how the DJs were actually allowed express their own music tastes, swear and take the piss on the radio. Australians are really very lucky in that regard.

I've always been a music junkie too so I actively seek out new music, but I'm conscious of the fact that I won't always have the time or opportunity to do so.

[ticboo]

thanks for replying on that Jay - this totally passed me by - though I was aware of the hoohaa (?) around The Strokes and The White Stripes. Somehow I thought at first the Kings were just one of my husband's obscure weirdie rock bands when he produced the YAYM cd. (baby, I'm joking! ) I must have had a lot of laundry to do at that time or something

I'm really enjoying this thread.

[chichi]

Feb 13, 2009 10:31:48 GMT Bornagirl76 said:

I agree that the record company didn't push the band enough in the States, but I also think that it wasn't worth their while back around Y&YM and ASH. They couldn't force music like that into the mainstream in America...it wasn't going to fit.

Personally, I think if American radio would have ever played The Bucket, Happy Alone, Taper Jean Girl, etc......KOL would be absolutely HUGE over here now. Everyone assumes Americans have such mainstream taste in music, but I don't feel that's the case at all. We're dying to hear new stuff over here!!

That's why I enjoy this forum so much - I've discovered a lot of great new music from people on here and for that I'm very grateful!!

[appleshaker]

good point....but the majority of Americans still listen to utter crap.


same in basically all western cultures though.

[chichi]

Feb 13, 2009 13:40:56 GMT appleshaker said:

good point....but the majority of Americans still listen to utter crap.

Have you not read anything in this thread?

*EDIt*

Actually, I'm not going to waste my time addressing that rude and ignorant statement.

Have a great weekend everyone!

[Bornagirl76]

Feb 13, 2009 13:28:19 GMT chichi said:

Feb 13, 2009 10:31:48 GMT Bornagirl76 said:

I agree that the record company didn't push the band enough in the States, but I also think that it wasn't worth their while back around Y&YM and ASH. They couldn't force music like that into the mainstream in America...it wasn't going to fit.

Personally, I think if American radio would have ever played The Bucket, Happy Alone, Taper Jean Girl, etc......KOL would be absolutely HUGE over here now. Everyone assumes Americans have such mainstream taste in music, but I don't feel that's the case at all. We're dying to hear new stuff over here!!

I dunno, not being American, but those three songs didn't make the Kings massive in the UK or Ireland either, so I can't imagine them getting the Kings mainstream exposure in the States. They were huge in indie circles with Y&YM and ASH, but weren't mainstream here either until Because of the Times.

The point I was making really was that the UK (and Ireland, more so) are so small in comparison to the U.S. that when there is a buzz in indie rock circles over a band, it is very easy for that buzz to escape into the mainstream. That's because rock/pop music is - broadly - the music of the masses in the UK, whereas in the States it is more rap & r&b. Music festivals like Glastonbury, Oxegen, Reading etc get tons of mainstream TV coverage. So even though the Kings weren't mainstream they still got coverage on TV & radio, which enabled people who are looking for new music to discover them. It just works differently over here - NOT because Americans' aren't interested in new music, but because they don't have such easy access to it.

[whitewickerchair]

bornagirl I agree with everything you've said! I would also just like to add that america is really hard to break. I mean even if their record company marketed the fuck out of them it mightn't have made a difference. they would have needed sombody like akon backing them

[kim111]

wow this thread gets better!! love it! annie i think you are on to summat with the festival thing when kol played glasto for the first time they got lots of attention from it. maybe over here and in oz and stuff big festivals make a big impact on everyone (who is interested in music) and people are willing to travel miles to go to glasto or whichever festval...... also all the big names in radio/music tv go to the festivals and are bringing the tiny indie band they saw at glasto that they fell in love with to the mainstream, radio people are more now being chosen for music knowledge and enthusiasm than for having a radio voice or being able to do a seemless link or talk up to the vocals.

[Savanna]

Agreed, love this thread

[Fully]

Feb 12, 2009 16:49:25 GMT pagalawala said:

Feb 12, 2009 15:03:35 GMT chairlover said:

I LOVE the new album. I don't think it's their best by any means, but it's still great! But isn't American radio just playing SOF for the most part? The song Jared has described as a "quirky filler song"? The one Caleb was considering not even putting on the album? The most popular KOL song is their filler song. That speaks volumes to me about "the masses'" taste in music..and American mainstream radio..
now that they're more popular in the States, do you think people will embrace their older music?
I hope so!

what i'm getting from you is: SOF, filler song, not their best work therefore American "masses": don't know any better.. well then this is where the entire debate started.. why don't they know any better? would it have made any difference if Use Somebody (which is getting as much airplay) was released first.. would the American masses' musical taste be more justified because they came to like the non-filler song first? even then, the world would still be criticizing.. but stop criticizing the American fans who were not exposed to their music from the beginning.. not everyone can afford satellite radios so that they could tune into their fav Indie Alt-Rock station..

i love the new album as well but what if the public was never made aware of the fact that SOF was a filler song in the first place.. then would that fact even matter? sometimes good songs happen accidentally.

i have faith that people will embrace KoL's earlier works as a result to their liking of SOF.. i know for a fact that it can happen for i've had close friends get lured in by SOF who are then humming the melody of Talihina Sky a few days later.. so there is hope and the boys saw that or else they would have given up on the American masses years ago..

I think that the fact that SoF is their first hit on American radio can be explained best by that fact that Nickelback is the hugest act on most US rock stations. Thatto me explains it all.

[pagalawala]

Feb 13, 2009 19:09:51 GMT Fully said:

I think that the fact that SoF is their first hit on American radio can be explained best by that fact that Nickelback is the hugest act on most US rock stations. Thatto me explains it all.

to each his/her own.. i didn't even know nickleback even had more music out.. so you're more up to date than i am

[sxesadie]

Just wanted to give this a bump and thank chi-chi, honey I've been saying the same thing forever!! Now is only the boys will realize that you can't blame the masses for what's not on the radio!

[Savanna]

I knew you'd appreciate this thread, Sadie.

[jenb]

Feb 11, 2009 19:23:45 GMT handsintheair said:

Feb 11, 2009 13:31:49 GMT chichi said:

Okay, I have to get something off my chest. I read and hear over and over again how KOL doesn't understand why they are suddenly breaking out over here in the States with SOF and not any of their earlier, better stuff. The answer isn't because Americans have awful taste in music and didn't like your earlier music....it's because WE NEVER HEARD IT!!!

The fact that you recieved practically zero airplay with your earlier stuff, and the fact that you weren't on SNL, and the fact that you were never nominated for a Grammy is because YOUR RECORD COMPANY DIDN'T PROMOTE YOU PROPERLY OVER HERE IN THE STATES!!

There are thousands of us fans who have loved you from the beginning and for years have never understood why your record company wasn't promoting you better over here in America and getting you airplay. I mean, take a look at your website - until recently it was crap! And don't get me started on your fan club.

I remember a few years back I sent an email to your PR guy asking if you ever planned on releasing a live DVD of your concerts. His response? "Um, no. No we don't." Nice, huh? That's your PR guy? That's the guy in charge of promoting you?

So please, don't blame us American fans anymore for your lack of popularity over here.....get on your record company and raise some hell!!!!

Love,

Chichi

AMEN, my friend

But something tells me the band doesn't blame the fans for being so slow to catch on ...

To be fair, Chi Chi and Chairlover, i think you're both right. Yes, American commercial radio is crap (which is why i don't bother) and you're far more likely to hear good music on WXPN, KCRW, MPR, etc. But if you don't live in a college town w/ a decent radio station or have access to online radio 24/7 it's hard to know what you're missing out on. From what i can tell, it's a lot easier in the UK to discover new/good music because the playlists on most major stations (compared to America anyway) are much more diverse.

At the same time i think RCA could have done a lot more to promote the band before OBTN was released. I don't pretend to know the politics behind getting airplay on commercial rock radio, but it doesn't seem like the label made much of an effort until this latest release. Booking them on SNL was huge, and it does seem like the promo effort for the album and SOF single were a lot bigger this time (e.g., SPIN cover story, RS pieces, etc). Be interesting to know what bands RCA was pushing between 2003 and 2008, cos it wasn't KOL.

Being an American fan I am not offended by any remarks about the comparision of KOL's success in the UK vs. US, however, I agree that if you do not listen to "college radio stations" in particular or an alternative station you would not have come across KOL. I do remember seeing their name in print quite a bit around 2004/2005, then I saw them open for U2 and was blown away, but as far as discovering them years ago or now for the matter on mainstream radio...no chance. I also recall randomly seeing them perform on Austin City Limits on PBS (television) one night, which they were stunning and my reaction was to full on investigate them and get tickets to a show, but nevertheless it was public television not the mainstream American media. So, from my own experience you really need to read an indie music magazine, word of mouth, internet or college radio/XPN/NPR to get turned on to music outside the mainstream realm. It's unfortunate but true. Thankfully, once you do get clued in, there are many sources/outlets, such as this fansite, to joyously fill in the gaps!

[chairlover]

First off, when I was referring to the "majority of Americans" having bad taste in music I honestly did not think people on this forum would fall into the category since the majority of Americans are not die hard KOL fans. I assumed that people on here who have mostly known about this band for quite awhile do NOT rely on mainstream radio for the music. Was I wrong in assuming this? Maybe most people get their music from a variety of sources (which is awesome!)
Maybe the term "poor" (as in poor taste in music) is the wrong word for me to use anyway, since taste in music is completely subjective. When I say that most Americans have poor taste in music, by poor I really mean limited...because I'm assuming that most Americans mostly get their music from mainstream radio which YES very much limits their exposure to a variety of music (and increases their exposure to a whole lot of CRAP music).
And while it's true that we don't have control over what the radio plays, we DO have control over whether we choose to listen to it. And if we make the choice to get all of our music from mainstream radio, we are really missing out on some great music out there. And yes. Yes that would make it OUR FAULT for relying on one big corporation (Clear Channel) to spoon feed us all our music. Sorry if that offends some people for whatever reason, but it's true!

[AccuratePassion]

Their label did promote them properly. I completely disagree with that point. I know a few people in radio and they would get played. People were not picking up on it though. Or at least no the masses.

Just accept the fact that the American masses like radio friendly songs.