The whole fame thing wigs me out.

[sugarhiccup]

Right, been thinking about mainstream culture/pop culture and all and how much it bugs me.
I think it must be such a bizarre phenomenon to be part of, it obviously has its upsides and its downsides and things come and go and there are many fads that are forgotten about.

When I hear a band I've loved and listened to from the word GO have 'made it' into the mainstream, whilst being happy for their success and hard work, I can't help but feel a little protective pang inside.
Like the 'new' fans that will have no doubt heard said band on radio/read in the nme and been touted as the 'next big thing' appear to be jumping on the bandwagon so to speak don't really appreciate where the band originally started or have followed them from day one.

I remember when I first heard Interpol, I'd bought a Rock Sound magazine, I was like 15/16? and there was a CD with a video for PDA on it. I instantly fell in love with their sound and spent the next few weeks trying to track down a copy of Turn on the bright lights (found one in my next nearest city, yay) I felt like I'd found a little musical discovery and no-one else had really heard of them. Then it just so happened that when they released Antics in 2004 (i think), they got a bigger mainstream audience and then were all over the festivals/touring etc and when Our love to admire was released, were given TONS of radio airplay and seemed to do well in the charts.
But, a year or two on and I doubt anybody who's only into pop culture would recognise any of their songs they released?! I know there are obviously their underground, hardcore fan base but to me, it just goes to show how fickle and god awful fame is.

I know all this may sound a bit melodramatic, but it annoys the crap out of me when you see some chav in your local town with sof or use somebody as their ringtone and you know that they'll have forgotten about kol in the next few months, or even weeks when the latest hot new thing arrives on the scene, be it lady-freakin-shut-yer-face-gaga or the latest teen sensation.
And again, in relation to kol, I hate to think of them as being mainstream now. I know, they've worked their god damn arses of for it, and have talent coming out of their ears and they deserve all the success they've achieved, but it sickens me to think they'd be another fad band, gone and forgotten about in a year to come. Sex on fire was such an obvious choice for them to release because it's so catchy and really fucking cool, but if they don't release any new material with that same sound, does that mean they won't be as popular or sell as many unites because it's not catchy enough or it's too 'out there'?

I'm not saying that just because you've heard about a band wayy before they became mainstream that only the hardcore fans can truly be real fans, god no, but it means that there is nothing really sacred about being a hardcore fan, cause every tom dick or harry has jumped on the bloody bandwagon.

One more thing, it makes me sad to think that kol will probably never play anymore small intimate gigs, like the ones they did when they were starting out. Those humid, sweaty, full-to-the-brim venues where you are literally a whisker's length away from the band. I love that whole atmosphere of a gig like that, don't get me wrong, it's awesome to go see a band in a really huge venue but the whole personableness of a live show just isn't there when a band is playing in front of a (insert colossal number here) audience.

I don't know if there is one overall point I'm trying to make, I think I just needed to let off a bit of steam about the fickleness of fame and also hoping that one of my most cherished bands don't become victim to it all. I know I write how hot Jared is, but that's pretty much done in jest and admiration of his fitness (hehe) and we all like to gawp at their gorgeous mugs from time to time, but I am truly passionate about their music, and truly passionate about many other bands that seem to have been forgotten about, I'm bascially utterly passionate about music.

Does anybody else get where I'm coming from or have I written too much of an essay?

[Savanna]

Just the same old concern/argument that keeps going round and round

The way I see it, I can be as depressed and upset as ever about it, but there's nothing I can do. I totally agree with pretty much everything you said. And it's all disappointing. But I know that it's a waste for us to put all of our emotion into it and let ourselves be so affected. Because whether we like it or not, they'll do what they want and it has always been an inevitable fact that they would become BIG. I just think the time has come and no one is ready for it.


About the small venues...definitely agree. It's upsetting to know that only arena shows are in their and our future...filled with one-time fans. Maybe, just maybe, in the future there will be another small show or two.



On the bright side...all of those SOFers who don't give a shit about the rest of the Kings' catalog may or may not stick around. Just think about it...the next album has the potential to be completely different than OBTN, thus turning off all of the mainstream fans. And as long as we know that we can call ourselves true, honest fans of theirs, we really shouldn't worry about the others.



Oh and another thing...there is absolutely no way to compare true fans to those who just jump on the bandwagon for a minute or two. We know everything about these guys, we fly wherever it is we need to to see them, we wait in extreme temps just to get a glimpse of them...we support them no matter what. For me, just knowing that about myself makes me feel different than the one-timers.

[sugarhiccup]

May 11, 2009 20:05:58 GMT Savanna said:

Just the same old concern/argument that keeps going round and round

The way I see it, I can be as depressed and upset as ever about it, but there's nothing I can do. I totally agree with pretty much everything you said. And it's all disappointing. But I know that it's a waste for us to put all of our emotion into it and let ourselves be so affected. Because whether we like it or not, they'll do what they want and it has always been an inevitable fact that they would become BIG. I just think the time has come and no one is ready for it.


About the small venues...definitely agree. It's upsetting to know that only arena shows are in their and our future...filled with one-time fans. Maybe, just maybe, in the future there will be another small show or two.



On the bright side...all of those SOFers who don't give a shit about the rest of the Kings' catalog may or may not stick around. Just think about it...the next album has the potential to be completely different than OBTN, thus turning off all of the mainstream fans. And as long as we know that we can call ourselves true, honest fans of theirs, we really shouldn't worry about the others.



Oh and another thing...there is absolutely no way to compare true fans to those who just jump on the bandwagon for a minute or two. We know everything about these guys, we fly wherever it is we need to to see them, we wait in extreme temps just to get a glimpse of them...we support them no matter what. For me, just knowing that about myself makes me feel different than the one-timers.

Ahh you're right.
I know there's not much use in worrying about the direction they're headed in but it totally frustrates me to the point I wish they were unknown and we could rewind back to a few years ago.
Having said that, we'd never have heard their new albums.
Hmm. It's such a tricky thing. But it's really heartening to know I'm not the only person that feels kind of protective over their music and I do hope the SOFers will lose interest and leave room for the true fans. But I wish more than anything they would play a small venue again, like a secret gig or something. Gahh!

[eyelashes]

I dont know if this had really got anything to do with what you were trying to say, but I think I'm probably one of those people you're talking about, jumping on the bandwagon.
I did only really hear about KoL when OBTN came out, but then I started listening to their older stuff and I love it, I am a KoL fan and I suspect I will still be here in a few years time, cos when I support someone I really support them.
I really liked one of the X Factor contestants a couple of years ago, he got voted out quite early on, but I went to see him at a gig in a nightclub, and although I know if he had done better on the show I wouldnt have had that same chance to be at such an intimate gig, meet him and talk to him, I still really wanted him to do well, as much as I loved having the chance to go to small gigs and to meet him, I still wanted him to be successful, cos he is talented and he deserved it.
So really I see it from both sides.

[sugarhiccup]

I see what you mean eyelashes, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that there can't be any new, true fans, it's good that you like some of their older stuff too! I know some people that have only heard BOTT and OBTN are not that into the sound they had when they did YAYM, but yeah it's great you have love for their more vintage stuff:) and I totally get what you're saying about the whole intimate gigs thing, too. I'm so happy they're getting recognised for being such a talented band, but I don't want their fame or notoriety as a 'cool' band to overshadow their actual skill.
But, I guess, their rock steady fans will always be there, so fame shouldn't really be that big of a deal.
I thought more people would have had an input or something to say, it's interesting to see what people make of the fame game.
Anywho!

[eyelashes]

Even though I'm a KoL newbie, today Use Somebody was on the telly in my sister's room, I rushed in to watch it lol, and my friend's gf came in and started singing along to it, and I felt a bit protective, cos I doubt she even knows the words. Silly really

[Black Jeans]

May 11, 2009 19:56:59 GMT sugarhiccup said:

And again, in relation to kol, I hate to think of them as being mainstream now. I know, they've worked their god damn arses of for it, and have talent coming out of their ears and they deserve all the success they've achieved, but it sickens me to think they'd be another fad band, gone and forgotten about in a year to come. Sex on fire was such an obvious choice for them to release because it's so catchy and really fucking cool, but if they don't release any new material with that same sound, does that mean they won't be as popular or sell as many unites because it's not catchy enough or it's too 'out there'?

Why would they be a fad band just because they've made it big now? There are thousands of other big bands out there that stay big forever. They gain fans, they lose fans, they have fans that only know the best of, but that's what this business is all about.
I'm sure some people here only know the greatest hits of The Rolling Stones, but that doesn't mean that they don't think they are an amazing band and would go and see them if they played in town.
The more albums a band makes the more the fan base is going to change. We just have to accept that they are one of the biggest bands around at the moment and be proud that we've had the chance to see them in smaller venues. And be proud for them that they have made it huge. They might not always be the number one sellers, but they have staying power and will always be one of the greats.
They aren't a fad band to most of their fans.

[errylou]

i do agree with you Sarah but Black Jeans (name??) you make a good point...

they aren't going to un-release Sex on Fire, return all their platinum discs and do a Men in Black on our arses and erase our memories...

sometimes sucky stuff happens, whether it be your pocket band not being your pocket band anymore, or your cat being run over... either way... we can't change it...

[montana]

Even though I got into the band quite late on (late 07) i think i can kind of imagine how weird/hard it must be for older fans to see how the band have progressed and changed. I know i felt a bit weird when OBTN came out and got the response it got.
If you saw them when they were raw and enthusiastic in a tiny club then i envy the knickers off you and i know i'm not alone.
But i also think that many of the bands we still revere today, would not still be as well known and as respected if they hadn't went "mainstream" , Zepplin, the Stones, the Beatles, the Who etc etc. I really do believe these guys are en route to being included among the names of these bands and to being still talked about by our kids and their kids (i can't wait to be the cool granny who saw kol back in the day )
And savvie you made a great point about the nature of "true" fans. Off course fans will come and go (i know there has been loads of songs from bands that i've been mad into, then moved on ) but i think if their music still excites and inspires you then you should stick with the band regardless of how big they become

[sugarhiccup]

May 11, 2009 21:57:42 GMT Black Jeans said:

May 11, 2009 19:56:59 GMT sugarhiccup said:

And again, in relation to kol, I hate to think of them as being mainstream now. I know, they've worked their god damn arses of for it, and have talent coming out of their ears and they deserve all the success they've achieved, but it sickens me to think they'd be another fad band, gone and forgotten about in a year to come. Sex on fire was such an obvious choice for them to release because it's so catchy and really fucking cool, but if they don't release any new material with that same sound, does that mean they won't be as popular or sell as many unites because it's not catchy enough or it's too 'out there'?

Why would they be a fad band just because they've made it big now? There are thousands of other big bands out there that stay big forever. They gain fans, they lose fans, they have fans that only know the best of, but that's what this business is all about.
I'm sure some people here only know the greatest hits of The Rolling Stones, but that doesn't mean that they don't think they are an amazing band and would go and see them if they played in town.
The more albums a band makes the more the fan base is going to change. We just have to accept that they are one of the biggest bands around at the moment and be proud that we've had the chance to see them in smaller venues. And be proud for them that they have made it huge. They might not always be the number one sellers, but they have staying power and will always be one of the greats.
They aren't a fad band to most of their fans.

I am incredibly proud they've done so well, you can see I wrote about that. I couldn't care less if they never had a number one single ever again, all I care is that they keep on making their music. What I'm saying about the the whole mainstream industry is that I don't like how it's so throw-away with everything, it's like a fast food culture and it's fickle and I don't like it.

Overall though, I'm so excited to hear their new stuff, and I know I'm going to have to get over the fact they're huge now, it's just strange to deal with.

[missus]

I am a fabulous person with excellent taste in music, and I only heard of King of Leon in January.

By all means hate douchebags cos they're douchebags. But don't hate on cool people who are just a little slower on the pick up. We deserve great music as much as you do!

I didn't start listening to Hendrix till 21 years after he died...

[brasiliangirl]

May 11, 2009 22:03:50 GMT montana said:

Even though I got into the band quite late on (late 07) i think i can kind of imagine how weird/hard it must be for older fans to see how the band have progressed and changed.

Same here. But, trying to see it from a pov of someone who has/started a band, I think that the change is something a band needs, even if it feels like a negative change. And also, I think a band doesn't go "let's keep a minimun number of fans"; they might like to have their music appreciated. Of course, for some Kol is this weekend's best thing, but in time the guys will be able to see who the real fans are.

[Savanna]

May 11, 2009 23:39:22 GMT @missus said:

I am a fabulous person with excellent taste in music, and I only heard of King of Leon in January.

By all means hate douchebags cos they're douchebags. But don't hate on cool people who are just a little slower on the pick up. We deserve great music as much as you do!

I didn't start listening to Hendrix till 21 years after he died...

That's not what it's about (I'm a new fan too). It's not so much about the newness of the fan but the TYPE of fan.

Like the kinds of people that wear Beatles or Rolling Stones shirts because they thought it looked cool even though they couldn't name 5 of their songs.


It's the novelty of it--the people that irk me are the people who say 'fuck yeah! kings of leon! sex on fire! they're my fave band!' just because they think they're cool for listening to a band who is relatively new to them and they think they've just discovered something.

[missus]

May 12, 2009 0:08:08 GMT Savanna said:

May 11, 2009 23:39:22 GMT @missus said:

I am a fabulous person with excellent taste in music, and I only heard of King of Leon in January.

By all means hate douchebags cos they're douchebags. But don't hate on cool people who are just a little slower on the pick up. We deserve great music as much as you do!

I didn't start listening to Hendrix till 21 years after he died...

That's not what it's about (I'm a new fan too). It's not so much about the newness of the fan but the TYPE of fan.

Like the kinds of people that wear Beatles or Rolling Stones shirts because they thought it looked cool even though they couldn't name 5 of their songs.


It's the novelty of it--the people that irk me are the people who say 'fuck yeah! kings of leon! sex on fire! they're my fave band!' just because they think they're cool for listening to a band who is relatively new to them and they think they've just discovered something.

I think we're saying the same thing - acknowledge and fling poop at the fools who like whatever is popular and don't give a damn about the band, but don't lump all "new" fans into that category either.

[brasiliangirl]

Old fans were new fans once;and, like savanna said there's not much to be done about the people who don't actually care about the music. They'll move on to their next "omg-fave-band-ever", and the actual kol fans will keep with their supporting the band.

[Flor de liz]

First, what I'll write is not a criticizes toward anyone here - as you will notice, but I wanted to make it clear- or anything like that, it's just something that I've been thinking about and happens that I think it fits on this thread.

I'm one of those new fans. It's not that I've never heard their songs before, I just didn't know the name of the band. Yeah, I'm like that. I never care about those things, I've never really were a fan of any rock band before, actually. I like the classics and all, but I don't know all the Beatles or Rolling Stones songs, for example, but I still appreciate their music a lot. Anyway, I'll tell a little story about how a became a KOL fan (yes, a fan) and then show you my point.

It was one of those lazy sunday afternoons, talking shit while watching MTV with my sister (to criticize all the bands, of course... it's like a hobby), then we went to the kitchen to prepare something to eat and when we came back KotR on was tv. I freaked out: "Boo, give me a pen and a piece of paper right now! I need to write down the name of this band! I can't believe I finally found out their name" My sister was like: "well, it wasn't that hard to find out, but whatever... they are awesome." Well, so much desperation for nothing! They were showing a lot of KOL videoclipes that day. The last one was SoF, of course.

My point is, I almost don't watch TV and never listen to the radio, so what would be my chances of finding out the name of the band - by chance - before OBTN? It would be difficult, specially here in Brazil.
What I want to say is that this new fame will not just bring those people that only know SOF, but people that will try and know the band previous work, just like I did.
I like to chose what I'll listen to - I mostly find music artists through online communities like Myspace and Orkut - but sometimes some help of the media is not bad.

What I really don't understand is why people criticize those people that only know OBTN. I understand that it probably sucks to go to a concert and realize that the crowd is not rocking or singing along to every song and such, but each on their own. Maybe they are appreciating the show and who knows, maybe they will even buy the other albuns. I don't know the lyrics to all the songs; it's hard to understand what they sing sometimes and I can't live with the albuns booklets stuck on my face till I learn all the lyrics, I have a plenty of other things to read, even if I think the lyrics are fascinating.

Like someone said before, it's perfectly normal to have fans coming and going into a band, that's how it works. I can say for myself, even if I listen to at least one KOL album every day, that maybe it'll came the day that I'll be sick of it and move on. If they, in the future, make an album that I think is shit, I'll probably not listen to it and stick to the old ones. I have no obligation with them as they have no obligation with me. To me, that's just part of the course of life. Some people come and go.

Maybe I'll never understand what is like to be a real fan of any band and that's why I don't get the criticism. But I'm happy KOL have great fans that are always there for them, it's just that those people can't charge the band for their devotion, cause they already pay it with their music.

I really hope the boys are smart enough to know, as you said, that fame is fickle, and although I think they have staying power, we can't tell the future. The only thing they can do, in my opinion, is continue to make their music on the way it feels right to themselves - just like I think they are doing, although some people say they are sell outs.

I don't think it's coherent... . Just my opinion after reading so much of this talk.

[kol1402]

Fuck it! the next albums not going to be "mainstream". theres a few hints in the rolling stone article that make me think that. then those shit fans will either just leave, or learn to truly appreciate their music including the old stuff.

[jeffica]

O Western, consumerism culture!!
What a fickle world we live in.
I have to agree with what sugarhiccup (sorry, idk your name..) said in the start, it is about the music. Or it should be. When I first discovered the Kings (and rock music in general actually, thanks to the best mix CD ever) in 2005, I didnt know what they looked like, how many of them there were or anything, and it didn't matter. Yet here I am now, I joined HA this year because i finally had access to a computer, but also because i felt that i had something to prove, that i had to be a bigger fan than my friend who likes kol and paramore in equal amounts... A totally selfish action on my part, but this has made me think...

The other night I was watching the bob dylan doco, no direction home, and I was just struck by how much more the music meant (or seemed to mean) in those days. People really used it as a platform to speak out and change society. We don't have that anymore, and I think that's where the problem is. I am NOT saying that this is the band's fault at all. Its like... if you really think about it, there is no POINT in music, except to sound great (something our boys do very well). So it would seem that the only reason to get big is to make money / be heard. The latter is great if you have something to say, but we're not in the sixties any more, and so I think that as soon as people see a little known band become huge, many people just assume that its for the perks that come with it - fame, $$ etc. The band has told us(well, interviewers actually, this is what i mean, im too protective) that thats not what they're about, and we should believe them. They want their music to be heard by people, they want to play it to people, they want people to like it, what's wrong with that? Even those that like lady gaga or miley still have the right to hear something like sex on fire and want to dance, and if that makes them buy the album, hear something like manhattan and think "wow" (or omg, as the case may be!) then great!!

So I suppose what I am trying to say (with those 2 seemingly unrelated points) is that its really down to us. We just have to believe that kol know what they are doing, and why. They've said that they want to make good music, and so far they've stuck to that. Theyve always been clear about their ambitions, and they've stuck to that too. I think thats far more honest than if they'd said that they don't care about who listens to them. Maybe they're discovering that they don't really like what's come out of this, but nobody can say that its from false intentions. Basically, if the music that comes out in the end is mainstream and GOOD, then its good music.

Yes they've changed. And yes, the fans have changed too. And next album they will change again. But in some ways nothing has. Matt bought some pedals and Caleb lost a bit of the southern accent. But i cry just as hard to cold desert as day old blues, and still think that closer is simply the most sublime song i have ever heard in my life, with the possible exception of the original of california waiting. As long as WE know that, we're OK.

end (nonsensical) rant.

[Savanna]

^ To be completely honest, I don't think the guys really know WHAT they want right now.


They've played devil's advocate sooooo many times in interviews...they want to be big, but they don't like the fame, they feel strange about having moms listen to their music, yet they feel that 16-18-21- year olds are trying to dictate what it is they produce.

So I don't think that them knowing or not knowing what they're doing, in terms of their music, is too relevant. I DO believe that they're just making the music that comes to them and not thinking too far beyond that. I don't think that this particular issue has much to do with the quality of their music rather than the natural evolution of this band and who it is that they attract, and whether or not we're ready for it.



BTW, I'm getting kind of confused as to what it is we're really talking about now, lol. Everyone seems to be making different points about different things..

[blackcat]

Hey everyone just my two cents here! i think everyone is making some great points and this discussion we are having is an interesting one, but will probably not have one definitive answer and will most likely be going on for a while now. I personally don't put certain fans on a higher pedestal than others, if you love the music and I mean TRULY love the music one can't judge you on when, where, how much you know, how many shows you have been to, do you know their real first names, and all that. Bottom line, the link that brings a lot of us together is how the music affects us. I feel that with HA I found a home in some amazing people that truly FEEL more than just a hit single from these boys, That being said I agree Sav I don't know if the boys know in what direction they're headed, which I guess makes me insanely anxious to hear their next album...fact of the matter is the boys are getting exactly what they have asked for (and at time complained for) in past interviews, they are getting the recognition, the fame, the airtime for better or for worse, I guess the real question is, now that they have the attention of the masses (and their home country) what's their next move?

I envy like hell all those that were able to see these boys in all their shaggy haired, bell bottom jeans, fresh out of the south glory, but in reality that boat done went and sailed. I guess it's time to see where they go from here, and while nothing would make me happier to hear an album with the same gritty, raw, and dirty appeal as their first two I honestly don't know if it's going to happen. It sucks, and it's sad but it's what to be expected from such a talented band I guess. And yall already know i have had to do some inner fan soul search about these boys, so I guess all I have to say is that hope for the best...but remain realistic about the future?

Also I couldn't agree with you more Jeffica (sorry don't know your name) with your last statement!


Yes they've changed. And yes, the fans have changed too. And next album they will change again. But in some ways nothing has. Matt bought some pedals and Caleb lost a bit of the southern accent. But i cry just as hard to cold desert as day old blues, and still think that closer is simply the most sublime song i have ever heard in my life, with the possible exception of the original of california waiting. As long as WE know that, we're OK.