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Post by benief on Aug 30, 2008 4:22:20 GMT
All I can say is I'm sick of people saying "Bands should evolve. I don't want to hear the same thing..." Led Zeppelin had the same sound for 8 albums and 12 years. It was the sound on the first album that I loved and I'm glad it continued all the way through till their last album. Was every song the same? No. Was every song obviously unique to them as a band, and stick to their niche? Yes. If I want to hear a new sound from a band, I'll listen to ANOTHER band. you are a fool go back and listen to all ther albums..and tell me ther all the same 'sound'. achilles last stand is a dead ringer of communication breakdown.... |
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Post by chickenandstuff on Aug 30, 2008 4:23:10 GMT
Right this selling out discussion is starting to be over-analysed.
so now its my turn in my first post.
Selling out in my opinion is ripping off the fans giving them something that you as a band dont give a shit about and thinking more about how much money can be made and not about how good an album or a live show can be.
Most of the songs on BOTT are less commercial than on the first 2 albums. Charmer as the 3rd single is the mosty non friendly single they'll probably ever release. Its a pixies rip-off but a class pixies rip-off. Trunk, runner, true love way, knocked up too. These songs sounded a bit alien at first compared to the first 2 albums, but really grew on me.
Ziggy, I dont get the argument saying that the KOL sound on the first 2 albums is completely unique, no musical influence at all as if they were just born with the ability to play great country tinged garage rock from year dot. Every band and artist are influenced by other bands, its a bit naive to think theyve just all of a sudden started to be influenced by other bands when they came to make the difficuly 3rd album. Mozart had to be influenced by someone, the beatles were possibly one of the greatest bands ever, they were influenced by Elvis.
Listen to the intro to Neil Young - Harvest Moon and then compare it with Talihina Sky. Is it just me that thinks Kings of Leon were influenced by Neil Young to name one artist. This is only one example of their influences on the first 2 albums, there are more.
In my opinion BOTT is their best album. A 7 minute epic about knocking up your girlfriend and staying with her is hardly the most accessible song in the world, but it works.
Ziggy i appreciate your opinion that bands shouldnt change their sound, but if every band in the world had your same mindset then the beatles wouldnt have made sgt pepper or the white album. The beatles started off as a boyband singing sugar coated singalong songs about holding hands, working 8 days a week, and how they felt fine. They ended up writing heavily political songs in a much more different way to the earlier stuff, and i prefer the later stuff and glad they did change. U2 changed so much between joshua tree and achtung baby, we wouldnt have had "one" or "mysterious ways" if they had done joshua tree part2.
And as you keep preaching about led zep, they did change their style of music throughout their career, Bron-y-aur stomp and going to california are country/folk songs compared to the riff heavy led zep 1+2. Again there are so many more examples. You slag off KOL for being influenced by more bands, but every single band in the world has been influenced by other bands. Led zep more than most. Things need to move on.
KOL cant go on forever singing about not been able to get a hard-on, perfect nipples showing, and givin all your cinnamon away. it just wouldnt be real and its refreshing to find a band that dont treat their fans as idiots.
They know they cant keep making the same record so they have not so much distanced themsleves from YAYM and ASH, but evolved in something a bit more mature and fitting in with how theyve changed since ASH. dont forget ASH came out in autumn 2004, and BOTT came out spring 2007. These are young men and a lot can happen in 2 and a half years, situations and attitudes change, this is reflected in the music.
Whoever was talking bout buddhism earlier in the thread was spot on by the way.
Ziggy, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with change or lack of it. Thats apparent with your picture from a scene from Almost Famous. We cant all stay in 1973. we have to move on, you seem to stuck in 1973 when led zep ruled the world. Why you so scared of change??? Do you want nixon to still be in power? Troops to stay in Vietnam? oil prices to be at record levels? wait a minute this sounds familiar, swap nixon for bush, vietnam for iraq, and oil prices are at record prices, history is repeating.lol. enough politics.lol
I cant wait for the new album, im not going to comment on whether i like the new songs or not til i hear the full album. No point in writing a review of it until ive heard it.
maybe some of you should take note. dont start slagging off the new direction til youve heard the whole album not just 3 and a bit songs.
I appreciate your opinion ziggy, but bands need to evolve. the quality of the music may be of a high standard, but in a different style. If everything stayed the same then the music world would be a pretty boring place. Change always has to happen. where would we be without bands like led zep, beatles, david bowie, sex pistols, oasis, radiohead and their evolution??
Where would we be?
thats right, we'd be listening to nickelback, and thats a whole different kettle of fish i dont want to start on.
good times to roll on.
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Post by rooney217 on Aug 30, 2008 4:24:08 GMT
All i will say is this - KoL have created a COMPLETELY NEW SOUND for every album they have made... of the three we've heard, they are all musically different! Pexbo once made a really good point in another thread a very long time ago (and it stuck with me coz i agree) - it is a possibility that the boys' musical direction is heading in a different direction to mine... and thats fine.. if i dont like it, i wont listen to it. For example, I am a hugeee Foo Fighters fan.. i love all their albums (except for in your honor and ESPG).. however, that doesnt mean i stopped listening to the ones before these two albums! KoL have made 3 splendid albums, and we've established they havent "sold out" (only their shows have haha!). i have faith in them that their risks are good ones, and i appreciate they change with each record.. i have referred to my "KOL depression" before - when i was sad about never hearing another Y&YM or ASH album again. however, i noticed, if i want to listen to something like that, then i will !!! --- that is, i will throw those cds on! I don't think KoL have sold out.. do i miss the bangs and ripped clothing? hells yes... because to me that was so different! but as long as the music remains different, then i cant say i care much about wat clothes the wear. and how! just like fashion and haircuts, music changes..sometimes for the better sometimes for the worst. i will hang on with them until they run out of juice, i didnt think bott was as good at first but then i found myself liking it. i thought , well here it goes, their last run but nope! they brought it back and totally redeemed themselves with obtn...at least from what ive heard so far.  |
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Post by lauralimonada on Aug 30, 2008 4:25:51 GMT
rosie! i love that you refer to your "kol depression" i went through the same thing.
i have a question for you(or anyone else)...
do you think we'll ever get a little KOL depression for BOTT and OBTN in a few years when they make new albums that are reallly different/new???
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Post by rooney217 on Aug 30, 2008 4:31:01 GMT
i do think some of us will. i mean there are really great songs on those albums.. *as im sure there will also be on obtn*  |
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Post by anners on Aug 30, 2008 4:33:40 GMT
we've established they havent "sold out" (only their shows have haha!). hahaha snap! karma g-love  |
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Post by groupielove on Aug 30, 2008 4:48:50 GMT
rosie! i love that you refer to your "kol depression" i went through the same thing. i have a question for you(or anyone else)... do you think we'll ever get a little KOL depression for BOTT and OBTN in a few years when they make new albums that are reallly different/new??? Limon i always wonder about that too... perhaps (perhaps~!), kol will evolve soooo much that one day they release an album and we just can't accept how damn different it is! like, they have three completely diff ones under their belts, but what will happen when (rather, IF), they create an album we dont like? well then, i will listen to everything i do like of theirs.. going back to my Foo Fighters example, it is possible : ) change can either be "selling out" (i.e. making boring crap) or risky (i.e. making changes and evolving).. u can like it or dislike it i just thought of something - another reason i love KoL so much is coz they challenge their fans musically.. many couldnt understand BOTT at first (coz we thought it was so diff).. but gradually, we ended up loving it! they, as a band, really do musically challenge us...then there's the Foos, who just create mediocre safe crap, call it foo fighters, and get us snoring! i would prefer risks over mediocracy . at least that way you know a band is going down hill for justifiable reasons. haha karma back atcha annie!  next time they come back to Oz, we gotta be fast with tix...we dont want an mgmt repeat eeek! |
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Post by chickenandstuff on Aug 30, 2008 4:57:03 GMT
Limon i always wonder about that too... perhaps (perhaps~!), kol will evolve soooo much that one day they release an album and we just can't accept how damn different it is! like, they have three completely diff ones under their belts, but what will happen when (rather, IF), they create an album we dont like? well then, i will listen to everything i do like of theirs.. going back to my Foo Fighters example, it is possible : ) change can either be "selling out" (i.e. making boring crap) or risky (i.e. making changes and evolving).. u can like it or dislike it i just thought of something - another reason i love KoL so much is coz they challenge their fans musically.. many couldnt understand BOTT at first (coz we thought it was so diff).. but gradually, we ended up loving it! they, as a band, really do musically challenge us...then there's the Foos, who just create mediocre safe crap, call it foo fighters, and get us snoring! i would prefer risks over mediocracy . at least that way you know a band is going down hill for justifiable reasons. haha karma back atcha annie! next time they come back to Oz, we gotta be fast with tix...we dont want an mgmt repeat eeek! wouldnt exactly say KOL make challenging music, thats best left to bands like radiohead and the like. its not as if theyve re-invented the wheel......yet. most of their songs are about sex, drugs and rock and roll, cliche i know, but they do such a great job of it. the last album had more subject matter than before such as religion and despair. |
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Post by groupielove on Aug 30, 2008 5:04:12 GMT
haha yes! i agree..radiohead is a perfect example, quite fitting.
ASH was certainly challenging for me... just coz of vocals and stuff.
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Post by anners on Aug 30, 2008 6:01:54 GMT
^^ yeh bro tickets the very second they come out. mum and dad really liked my sydney idea! they're up for it hahaha awesome |
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Ziggy
Struttin' Now
"...'cause baby this is oh-ho-hoooooo-honly bringing me dowwwwahhhhowwwahowwn."
Posts: 344
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Post by Ziggy on Aug 30, 2008 13:30:57 GMT
If I wasn't going to listen to them anymore, I wouldn't be on this board! Unfortunately, many bands go through this "evolution." I'm not going to desert a band because they have changed. All I am saying is that I don't get people that PREFER that from bands. People that say "I don't want to listen to the same album over and over. I want something new." I'm the opposite. I love consistently great music. I don't like how KOL has changed, I wish it could be Aha Shake Heartbreak forever, but I still listen to them. I still like them (never said I didn't), I just don't know if I like this new path they are embarking on, musically. I can't stand when bands feel that they need to change. And to Pexbo's response to my post: If you want to make a mature argument on this board, how about not responding with asshole remarks just because someone thinks differently than you?  EDIT- Oh and this isn't important to my post but I skimmed over what you wrote again and I thought I'd just say: they all definitely still wear skinny jeans. We aren't listening to what they say at the supermarket; we're listening to what they say on stage. id be very interested to hear what they say in the supermarket actually and i think id prefer to know they were being themselves and wearing what they wanted and acting how they wanted rather than putting on a front for people. clearly fashion means more to some people That reminds me of something: Caleb says he likes to be out of the skinny jeans at home and be himself. Why is it that in the Use Somebody home video we see them in their at-home studio, the golf course, etc. in skinny jeans? I'm not trying to make this important, just something I thought of. |
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Ziggy
Struttin' Now
"...'cause baby this is oh-ho-hoooooo-honly bringing me dowwwwahhhhowwwahowwn."
Posts: 344
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Post by Ziggy on Aug 30, 2008 13:32:18 GMT
All I can say is I'm sick of people saying "Bands should evolve. I don't want to hear the same thing..." Led Zeppelin had the same sound for 8 albums and 12 years. It was the sound on the first album that I loved and I'm glad it continued all the way through till their last album. Was every song the same? No. Was every song obviously unique to them as a band, and stick to their niche? Yes. If I want to hear a new sound from a band, I'll listen to ANOTHER band. you are a fool go back and listen to all ther albums..and tell me ther all the same 'sound'. achilles last stand is a dead ringer of communication breakdown.... I love how you quote me, call me a fool, but then seem to have completely missed what I wrote. Let me RE-quote is for you, dear: "Was every song the same? No. Was every song obviously unique to them as a band, and stick to their niche? Yes." |
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Ziggy
Struttin' Now
"...'cause baby this is oh-ho-hoooooo-honly bringing me dowwwwahhhhowwwahowwn."
Posts: 344
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Post by Ziggy on Aug 30, 2008 13:35:45 GMT
Right this selling out discussion is starting to be over-analysed. so now its my turn in my first post. Selling out in my opinion is ripping off the fans giving them something that you as a band dont give a shit about and thinking more about how much money can be made and not about how good an album or a live show can be. Most of the songs on BOTT are less commercial than on the first 2 albums. Charmer as the 3rd single is the mosty non friendly single they'll probably ever release. Its a pixies rip-off but a class pixies rip-off. Trunk, runner, true love way, knocked up too. These songs sounded a bit alien at first compared to the first 2 albums, but really grew on me. Ziggy, I dont get the argument saying that the KOL sound on the first 2 albums is completely unique, no musical influence at all as if they were just born with the ability to play great country tinged garage rock from year dot. Every band and artist are influenced by other bands, its a bit naive to think theyve just all of a sudden started to be influenced by other bands when they came to make the difficuly 3rd album. Mozart had to be influenced by someone, the beatles were possibly one of the greatest bands ever, they were influenced by Elvis. Listen to the intro to Neil Young - Harvest Moon and then compare it with Talihina Sky. Is it just me that thinks Kings of Leon were influenced by Neil Young to name one artist. This is only one example of their influences on the first 2 albums, there are more. In my opinion BOTT is their best album. A 7 minute epic about knocking up your girlfriend and staying with her is hardly the most accessible song in the world, but it works. Ziggy i appreciate your opinion that bands shouldnt change their sound, but if every band in the world had your same mindset then the beatles wouldnt have made sgt pepper or the white album. The beatles started off as a boyband singing sugar coated singalong songs about holding hands, working 8 days a week, and how they felt fine. They ended up writing heavily political songs in a much more different way to the earlier stuff, and i prefer the later stuff and glad they did change. U2 changed so much between joshua tree and achtung baby, we wouldnt have had "one" or "mysterious ways" if they had done joshua tree part2. And as you keep preaching about led zep, they did change their style of music throughout their career, Bron-y-aur stomp and going to california are country/folk songs compared to the riff heavy led zep 1+2. Again there are so many more examples. You slag off KOL for being influenced by more bands, but every single band in the world has been influenced by other bands. Led zep more than most. Things need to move on. KOL cant go on forever singing about not been able to get a hard-on, perfect nipples showing, and givin all your cinnamon away. it just wouldnt be real and its refreshing to find a band that dont treat their fans as idiots. They know they cant keep making the same record so they have not so much distanced themsleves from YAYM and ASH, but evolved in something a bit more mature and fitting in with how theyve changed since ASH. dont forget ASH came out in autumn 2004, and BOTT came out spring 2007. These are young men and a lot can happen in 2 and a half years, situations and attitudes change, this is reflected in the music. Whoever was talking bout buddhism earlier in the thread was spot on by the way. Ziggy, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with change or lack of it. Thats apparent with your picture from a scene from Almost Famous. We cant all stay in 1973. we have to move on, you seem to stuck in 1973 when led zep ruled the world. Why you so scared of change??? Do you want nixon to still be in power? Troops to stay in Vietnam? oil prices to be at record levels? wait a minute this sounds familiar, swap nixon for bush, vietnam for iraq, and oil prices are at record prices, history is repeating.lol. enough politics.lol I cant wait for the new album, im not going to comment on whether i like the new songs or not til i hear the full album. No point in writing a review of it until ive heard it. maybe some of you should take note. dont start slagging off the new direction til youve heard the whole album not just 3 and a bit songs. I appreciate your opinion ziggy, but bands need to evolve. the quality of the music may be of a high standard, but in a different style. If everything stayed the same then the music world would be a pretty boring place. Change always has to happen. where would we be without bands like led zep, beatles, david bowie, sex pistols, oasis, radiohead and their evolution?? Where would we be? thats right, we'd be listening to nickelback, and thats a whole different kettle of fish i dont want to start on. good times to roll on. Chickenduff, I wouldn't even know where to start with that. You say people are overanalzying this thread. I think YOU overanalyzed ME! From your analysis of my photo, in which you try to draw conclusions about what is running through my head. I know very well that not every band stayed the same. You cite the Beatles which is a great example of a band that completely changed their sound. But then perhaps that is why I like the latter Beatles over the early Beatles. I prefer for the bands I listen to to have the same sound. That's my opinion. Sorry if makes you so puzzled and confused and leads you to write an essay about me. Just like so many people in this board like change, I am entitled to like the continuation of a sound that I loved from album 1 to the last album. And if you read my discussion of Led Zepp with another member on this thread earlier, you'll see that you completely missed the point. What was said is that Led Zepp was able to experiment without ever losing that unique sound and production that was THEIRS. I'm not saying I want KOL to be the next Led Zepp (Ha!), I'm simply making a comparison in how the two bands grew throughout the years. It is one thing to dip into different styles and offer listeners a wider library of songs. It is another thing to evolve into a whole new band, abandoning what was present from day 1. |
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Post by Viscera Eyes on Aug 30, 2008 15:32:46 GMT
I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions of things. Some people are going to like the change, and others are going to dislike the change and thats okay.
The bottom line is, the Kings are going to do what they're going to do regardless if people like it or not, bitching or not bitching. If you like it, they'll be glad to have you as a fan. If you don't - well Caleb already pointed out what he'd like you to do.
If you don't like change, and nobody said you have to like it - its as simple as not listening to it.
Sorry, thats just my opinion of it all. It reminds me of those people that consistantly bitch about every album after it comes out yet keep forgetting that the band does not care, nor does anyone else and nothing anyone does or says will change a thing.
Some bands change, some keep the same sound. Led Zeppelin was fairly consistant in their blues rock sound - as stated before. The Beatles; however, decided to change it up and expiriment.
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Ziggy
Struttin' Now
"...'cause baby this is oh-ho-hoooooo-honly bringing me dowwwwahhhhowwwahowwn."
Posts: 344
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Post by Ziggy on Aug 30, 2008 15:36:26 GMT
Why is it that if someone expresses a dislike of something that KOL is doing, all of a sudden they are "bitching." Like I said before, we all still like the band, just some more than others. Some people just act like anything negative said about the band is blasphemy. I'm still excited about their new album, I'm still going to see them in concert, I still like them. But if I want to make criticism, I damn well can. People need to get over it. They are not universally acknowledged as perfect... it's okay to say something negative about them.
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Post by Viscera Eyes on Aug 30, 2008 18:23:44 GMT
Some people do bitch, and they over-do it. Its with every band, and it gets whiney. If you read various forums you'll see what I mean. If I want to make criticism against them, I damn well can too. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, after all.
However, if it ever gets to the point where someone is so bothered by the fact that a band is changing it up and evolving, they should pack it up and go listen to something else. Or vice versa with a band not changing it all and releasing 6 albums that all sound the same.
Its everyone's decision to buy in or not. On the other hand, we don't know what KOL's management wants them to do and what they are telling them to do and say in order to become bigger and sell. Record companies are the biggest pain in the asses these days. They push for things, they choose the songs that will make the final cuts on the albums. They have some-what of a say in the sound.
Being a fan of various types of music styles and genres, as long as the music is good on this next album, I really don't care if they've abandoned their sound/look from their first record. As long as they're not playing polka/rap fusion personally i'm good.
Alas, its not the 1960's anymore, no matter how much we wish it was. Production methods have changed, management has changed, music has changed, and the music industry is ruined. It is what it is in the end - take it or leave it. As you said, here we all like them. Just some more than others and everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.
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Post by benief on Aug 30, 2008 18:35:13 GMT
you are a fool go back and listen to all ther albums..and tell me ther all the same 'sound'. achilles last stand is a dead ringer of communication breakdown.... I love how you quote me, call me a fool, but then seem to have completely missed what I wrote. Let me RE-quote is for you, dear: "Was every song the same? No. Was every song obviously unique to them as a band, and stick to their niche? Yes." cos they made it ther niche by being freaking awesome and basically breaking new ground zeppelins later albums are really very different to ther earlier stuff. they changed and evolved as much other bands.... the zeppelin on physical graffiti is a different zeppelin to the one on zeppelin I for example. yes there are similarities...but so is there with KOL. bands that don't evolve, grow, improve and in many cases change to some degree are those that are lazy, talentless coin merchants who aren't really in it for the music. |
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Post by Viscera Eyes on Aug 30, 2008 18:46:21 GMT
Whoever was talking bout buddhism earlier in the thread was spot on by the way. Where would we be? thats right, we'd be listening to nickelback, and thats a whole different kettle of fish i dont want to start on. haha Thank you, that was me talking about buddhism. Oh god, not Nickelback. They're a perfect example of a band who has not evolved at all and keeps the same sound as well as writes the exact same song over and over again. They get over-played everytime they release something down here because they come from here. Karma! |
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Post by sofarfromhome on Aug 30, 2008 21:43:47 GMT
what the hell point are you trying to make
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Post by schnucams on Aug 30, 2008 22:58:31 GMT
Firstly, Ziggy, of course you are entitled to your opinion as we all are, but if you share your opinion on a discussion forum u must accept that it will be discussed and this involves those that disagree with you voicing theirs. Ideally this wouldnt involve namecalling but u did use the word "asshole" referring to another members posts also. Secondly, we have heard 3 and a bit tracks from the forthcoming album, perhaps it'd we could have a more informed discussion on September 24th?  I think its important to remember that KOL didnt listen to a huge variety of music as they were growing up so I think its normal that they would be more influenced by different bands, genres etc as they are exposed to more music. Jared even pointed this out himself in a relatively recent interview (on youtube but I cant remember exactly which one). This is what amazes me about KOL really that they can produce such brilliant music individually and as a group given the dearth of contemporary influences as they grew up!! |
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