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Post by newtonab on Jun 26, 2008 5:30:02 GMT
Good point, Laura. I don't like "white america", but I don't want a president who despises any race....at all. He basically stereotyped all white people when he said that. I wouldn't think I'm like the white people he was describing (I know I'm not), but at the same time, we don't know what he meant. We could interpret that statement several different ways, but would you like me at all if I said I find solace in despising black people? The words you quoted (about him finding solace in despising his mother's race) are not Obama's words. The quote I presume you're referring to is "_found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against _mother's race." It has been presented as a direct quote from Obama's autobiography, Dreams Of My Father. Actually the quote is by Steve Sailor in his review of Obama's book for the American Conservative. It didn't take long for someone to twist the truth and present it as Obama's words. It seems people were willing to just take it as fact when a quick Google (or - god forbid - actually reading the book in question!  ) would have revealed the truth. It just shows how willing Obama's opposition is to spread fear and race hatred. All is not what it seems  Right on, I had no knowledge about that. That figures.... (I guess even the smartest of people may receive the wrong facts....by the way, I'm referring to my friend who told me about the quotes; he's knowledgable. And I'm the dummy for posting it...::foot to the mouth:  Karma I was just hinting at what happened with Germany when they were left with no support or aid after WWI.... -- I was going to say if we completely leave the Middle East there's NO telling what would happen considering their beliefs toward America. I still believe that we should get our troops out of there, but now I that I think about it, we definitely don't need soldiers over there to give them aid. All we need to do is pay them, and let them do as they please..along with other things. Obviously we shouldn't mess with their "ways of life", for a lack of a better word (government/society). And after reading about Obama, I have gained back a little more faith in him, and once again think he may be qualified to follow through with more peaceful relations with the Middle East. I hope that is still possible. |
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Post by Bornagirl76 on Jun 26, 2008 15:28:05 GMT
[Right on, I had no knowledge about that. That figures.... (I guess even the smartest of people may receive the wrong facts....by the way, I'm referring to my friend who told me about the quotes; he's knowledgable. And I'm the dummy for posting it...::foot to the mouth: Oh totally, these things get spread around and twisted and it's hard to get to the kernel of truth sometimes. Particularly in America where the press is so fiercely partisan. You're not a dummy - you're thinking about these things, and willing to discuss them! Oh right, I see what you mean. I think it's a very different situation though - fault for leaving Germany so destitute lies with all of Europe as well as America, and it had been a world war kickstarted by Germany's aggression. That's not the case with Iraq - they were invaded, not the other way round. But yeah I certainly agree with the point that you can't just leave Iraq in tatters. The US and UK have to take responsibility for what they've done. -- That would be ideal, but it just isn't possible. Throwing money at Iraq isn't going to be enough. Hopefully! I don't know enough about him to have an opinion really, I just think nearly ANYONE would be better than Bush! |
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Post by sunshowers on Jun 26, 2008 22:44:09 GMT
Just putting my 2 cents in here...
I think the reason Iraq is such a mess is that people only think there are two options when it comes to dealing with this war. They think we either have to stay to try to get the situation under control, or leave. Staying won't work because it would take a ridiculously large amount of money and resources, not to mention the loss of life, to turn Iraq into peaceful country. If we left, the Iraqi government will have to overcome large barriers and obstacles to get control over the entire country. Either way, we have a mess on our hands.
But those aren't the only two options.
The easiest way to turn Iraq into a stable country is through its economy. Right now, a large majority of Iraqis live in poverty. Businesses have either closed down or left the country completely. Millions of immigrants, many of whom are educated, have left the country. Unemployment and inflation rates are sky high.
Considering that most violence is caused by poverty, the best way to reduce violence, and thus stabalize the country, is through economic incentives. Tax breaks should be given to businesses. Provisions should be put in to decrease inflation. Iraq is an oil rich country; they should not be in a state of poverty. We need economists, not military stategists, to fix Iraq. We need to send money instead of bombs. Troop numbers should be gradually decreased. They should not be removed immediately, but within a couple of years.
If every country who participated in the war sent economic aid, Iraq would virtually fix itself. And most importantly, the Iraqis would finally be happy. Eh voila.
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exileon2ndst
Knocked Up
...tiMe On me iS waSTeD tiMe...
Posts: 479
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Post by exileon2ndst on Jun 27, 2008 1:20:50 GMT
keep it to rock and roll... girls and booze
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Post by appleshaker on Jun 27, 2008 2:56:20 GMT
^^ agreed matie!
why are America in Iraq?
9/11 happens
apparently it's Osama
America visits Afganistan for 2/3 weeks
America leaves Afganistan, leaving a handful of soldiers in Afganistan
America goes on hunt for Oil WMD's
None Found
..To be continued...
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dayoldblues
Runnin' Free
Pissin' on this wall
Posts: 228
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Post by dayoldblues on Jun 27, 2008 6:03:21 GMT
Bush has ruined our social standing to the point of no repair....
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ohcoco
Runnin' Free
This monkey's gone to heaven
Posts: 228
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Post by ohcoco on Jun 27, 2008 12:07:09 GMT
well i'm not going to get into a political debate but as far as crawl goes..... i'm so sick of bands, celebs or anyone that is a public figure babbling on about their political opinions through any means they can. Really i don't care about their political standpoint i just want to listen to good music, or see a good movie etc. without being preached to about what opinion i should have on a particular topic, and to me people who do this just look like idiots, they are really no superiority on the matter simply because they have publicity and are usually just as, or less educated on the matter than any average joe!!! I'm not saying that KOL are preaching their opinions on us through crawl, but it sort of alianates them amongst their non US fans because lots of us A) don't care or B)lack significant knowledge on the US government. Of course we all know about Iraq etc but its not quite as direct to us. The last thing we need is another John Butler trio where every song is about some new political whinge. It gets boring. As shallow as it is i think they should stick to making songs about women, drugs and being soft, its not so draining on the fans! My political rant is over  |
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Post by Bornagirl76 on Jun 27, 2008 12:47:58 GMT
Hmm...I never really understood why people immediately assume bands are preaching just because they express their political views. I like bands who are honest in their lyric-writing, who write about what they're feeling and what is affecting them. If the state of Bush's America is preoccupying Caleb to some degree, then why shouldn't he write about it? It doesn't mean he's automatically saying, "Hey, I'm a rockstar, therefore I know better than most of you so sit up and take heed of what I'm saying". He's just expressing himself - you can take it or leave it. And anyway, Crawl isn't exactly a political manifesto, is it? As for lyrics about the U.S. alienating non-U.S. fans cos it doesn't affect us...the U.S. affects ALL of us, whether we want it to or not. As for Iraq not directly affecting you - you're Australian, Australia invaded Iraq along with the U.S. and the UK! If you're just not interested, that's totally fair enough, but I really don't think it would alienate that many non-U.S. fans. Personally I can't really relate to lyrics about makin' eyes at hot girls in Camaros, but as long as it sounds good I don't care, and it's the same with Crawl |
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Post by inhiding on Jun 27, 2008 13:23:18 GMT
rule no. 1
your nationality does not necassarily describe yr politix. just like in america, australia's decision to go to iraq was extremily unpopular. but the aus gov't at the time wanted to kiss bush's ass. they has learned that lesson from a prime minister in the seventies, whitlam, whom the cia had underhandedly had outed thru dirty politix becos he didnt bow down to us sentiment, and when i say us, i mean the us gov't. who i know doesnt necessarily mean the u.s people. but anywaze i wanted to say is that i love artists who play music. not musicians. so if a musical artist doesn't say things i occasionally disagree with they r not giving me art, they r giving me sold out run of the mill rock songs that anyone could make. artists r supposed to make music that comes from their heart. anything less is lame. so i expect as a fan that sooner or later kol r gonna come out with a song/album that makes me think about my own views about life. and i'm either gonna love em or hate em for it. but thats art. not top 40 pop crap. thats what i love about music. just remember, kol have come of age with pearl jam, u2 and dylan, and if a little of those extremely political/conroversial views dont rub of on em, cos they r young, then i'm worried. i'll go off and listen to beyonce or somthing.
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Post by SozzellLovesKOL on Jun 27, 2008 13:50:43 GMT
OK OK I'll get into it heeeheee The comment(s) that really bother me regarding Obama is that he's on the side of "the terrorists." The Muslim/Arab communities are being targeted and stereotyped in general as being "the bad guys." If Obama said he sides with the people of Iraq it's because the population of Iraq as a whole IS NOT terrorist people. People deserve to live and the U.S. government is slaughtering a population of people fighting for their lives! And I also understand Obama's statement about "white people." I'm brown, Mexican, Latina, Hispanic...whatever you wanna call me. And I've experienced racism from white people on many occassions. It really makes you wonder...is racism really over? Did it really end with the Civil Rights Movement? NO! People don't understand, this country is run by white people, everyday is "white day." When someone says something that goes against that EVERYONE freaks out. Of course, because they don't wanna give up the power. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a die-hard Obama fan, I'm a skeptic of his policies but for different reasons. But if he's questioning the status quo, I respect him. I hope I didn't get too controversial.  Laura, I actually admire you for saying what you just said. Not because it's anything to do with Obama, not because I agree or disagree - I don't live in America so wouldn't know! But because you said something that so many people these days would read so much into. That's what I hate about living in England, and why lately I've been so sick and tired of this place. I don't consider London as a racist place, at all. And if it ever is, it comes from all walks of life. I'm just sick of having to monitor everything I say, everything is considered racist here now. Take this example, I was in lesson last year and asked someone where they were from, she replied ' Somalia' and a few people turned round and gave me these surprised - why did you ask that looks! All I did was ask where she was flippin' from! I know this is a thread about America, but I feel like a stranger in my own country these days, and it makes me sick. |
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ohcoco
Runnin' Free
This monkey's gone to heaven
Posts: 228
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Post by ohcoco on Jun 27, 2008 22:51:23 GMT
And anyway, Crawl isn't exactly a political manifesto, is it? i agree with this, i'm not necessarily meaning that crawl is some outrageous statement about politics but mine is more of a general statement about famous people rambling about politics eg Sean Penn, you can't say he doesn't preach a bit!!! I'm not saying crawl alienated me but i don't want KOL to turn into one of those bands that sing about every political issue that arises and their opinion to go along with it. And yes whilst lots of American issues do directly affect me like wars and the election, things like gun laws there, medical waiting lists, social class, education whatever IMO don't!- this isn't directly linked to crawl, obviously, but celebs, bands, actors etc, who basically never shut up about it and you can't say people like Oprah haven't used their power to sway thousands of votes for Obama, thats my point. |
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Post by sunshowers on Jun 30, 2008 3:21:18 GMT
Considering one of the other songs on the next album is called "Sex On Fire," I don't think we really have to worry about the boys turning all political on us. (Unless it's about legalizing prostitution or something...)
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exileon2ndst
Knocked Up
...tiMe On me iS waSTeD tiMe...
Posts: 479
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Post by exileon2ndst on Jun 30, 2008 4:06:48 GMT
i also agree we have nothing to worry about, but music should be a way to get away from the everyday problems we have... same goes with sports and watching TV ect... some bands, and other famous people just take it too far
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exileon2ndst
Knocked Up
...tiMe On me iS waSTeD tiMe...
Posts: 479
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Post by exileon2ndst on Jun 30, 2008 4:12:57 GMT
ALSO, i just seen the 3 parts of CRAWL from tampa... i was completley wrong about this song, that one version didnt justify this song at all... has a little zeppelin resembalence in the guitars... thanks mookie
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